Thread:Uskok/@comment-27295021-20180325125431/@comment-996391-20180402162000

Ninclow wrote: That's a relief! For a moment there, I was worried I had annoyed you. ^^' Btw, how do you

How do I what?

Ninclow wrote: If Hawkins exist in POTC, so does everything relating to him, otherwise - where the heck would he come from? That aside, okay, in the original Peter Pan, James Hook is said to be the only one Long John Silver ever was afraid of, confirming that Captain Hook and Long John co-existed within the narritive of Peter Pan. Unless we are to pretend the Price of Freedom, in which James Hook appear, (and since he disappear and don't age, that proves Neverland exists in POTC canon, meaning everything in Peter Pan do happen, just "off camera" at a later time). So James is part of POTC. Long John was afraid of James. Hawkins, the father of young Jim, appear in canon, and both have been adapted by Disney. What prevents POTC from being an extended, unseen universe of Peter Pan and Treasure Island, exactly?

The thing is that everything related to Captain Hawkins was already shown. And that's his ship, his friendship with Governor Swann, and his death at the hands of Mercer. Yes, The Price of Freedom proves that a pirate captain named James exists in the POTC world. That pirate also has a hook in place of a missing hand and he's afraid of small boys. But that's all we know about him. You know why? Because this is the Pirates of the Caribbean Wiki, not the Treasure Island Wiki nor the Peter Pan Wiki. This Wiki covers only the POTC materials. Treasure Island and Peter Pan are not parts of the POTC world. Hawkins and Hook are just borrowed elements. It doesn't matter if Disney owns all three franchises. They are still officially separated. Any attempt to combine them all based on out-of universe sources (which Treasure Island and Peter Pan are from the POTC point of view) is nothing but speculating, and we don't allow speculations in our articles. If Disney one day decides to combine all three franchises into one, then we'll make articles for the stories (and their characters, locations, events, etc.) of the other two franchises, but not before.

Ninclow wrote: A "living, breathing" human being is too weak of a link? That's like going to the museum, stand next to a bunch of fossils and ask how we can know for sure that evolution is a thing.

Yes, the link is too weak because it's a pretty much dead link, no pun intended. At the moment, Disney has no plans to bring the rest of Treasure Island and Peter Pan in Pirates of the Caribbean. There is also another reason why Captain Hawkins can't be Jim Hawkins' father. Dead Men Tell No Tales sets the events of At World's End in 1729, as you can see here. In Treasure Island Captain Flint gave his treasure map to Billy Bones in 1754. Therefore, Bones couldn't meet Jim Hawkins before 1754. If Jim was born around 1729, the year when Captain Hawkins died, because he couldn't be born after Captain Hawkins died, for obvious reasons, he would have been 25 in the book. But he wasn't that old. He was a teenager, which means he was born long after Captain Hawkins' death, which also means Captain Hawkins can't be Jim's father.

Ninclow wrote: That don't prove that Treasure Island don't co-exist in POTC. That proves that the creators had originally intended to move on from Will and Elizabeth and encouraged the aduience to make up their own minds on what happened to Will afterwards. The On Stranger Tides came out, which was a far cry from being a very good movie in any sense of the word, and they decided that when the sequel came along, to have Will and Elizabeth come back because they were fan favorites and having them return hopefully meant more money would come trilling in their pockets. So - it only proves Will and Elizabeth is popular characters and that the movie makers wanted to profit on that fact, and not really much more than that.

Personally, I consider On Stranger Tides much better than Dead Man Tell No Tales. The zombies were disappointing and the lack of sea battles bothered me a little but at least the film didn't contradict anything established in the previous films. I agree that that the movie makers wanted to profit on Will and Elizabeth's return, but we both know what actually happened. They failed! On Stranger Tides, where we didn't have those two, made much more money than At World's End and Dead Men Tell No Tales, where we had them.

Ninclow wrote: Also, unless you can prove the concept of Hawkins, and by extension the rest of Treasure Island, being a part of POTC canon have been contradicted somewhere, the validity of your argument is one I will bring into question in a heartbeat. You are comparing fan favorites and profit to throwaway references to the extended universe of POTC canon, and they're not the same.

As I said, the rest of Treasure Island and Peter Pan were never shown in Pirates of the Caribbean. They weren't even mentioned in Pirates of the Caribbean. Ergo, they do not exist in Pirates of the Caribbean. If Disney brings them into this franchise one day, that's when we'll say they do exist. Not before.

Ninclow wrote: He was called Captain Hawkins in the novelization because he was Captain Hawkins in the movie the novelization is based on, it just wasn't clearified, which is why it was brought up in the commentary. He was called Hawkins because he was Hawkins.

He was supposed to be Jim Hawkins' father, but supposed to be something and actually being something is not the same. The difference is small, but very important.

Ninclow wrote: Also, on the subject of continuity errors, wouldn't the logical thing be to add the vast majority of thing that do fit together, add the retconned information in the article without trying to describe them as a sequence of events, but more as seperate events in Jack's life dated this or that, and point out the continuity mistakes on the BTS/trivia section?

.

How do you propose that we name those sections and subsections in Jack's biography? As for the continuity mistakes, we try to explain them in references, like with Jack and Davy Jones not recognizing in The Price of Freedom, which is explained here.