Thread:Uskok/@comment-27295021-20180325125431/@comment-996391-20180409154924

Ninclow wrote: Yep, failing to finish a sentence isn't embarresing at all.. :P The question was: How do I quote your posts here? I don't see any button for that. ^^'

There is a quote button in the bottom right corner of everyone's post. You can't see it?

Ninclow wrote: Uh - no it wasn't.

Yes, it was. What we saw in DMC and its novelization is all the official info about Captain Hawkins.

Ninclow wrote: Uh - no it isn't. How did he pocure the ship he captained? What did he do to earn captaincy? What is his first name? How did he meet the Govenor, let alone befriend him, seen as a Governor is to high status compared to a ship's captain that it isn't certain a man like Weatherby would want to openly associate with him, so Hawkins must have left quite an impression.

There is loads of information relating to his role in the movie that we don't have.

Unknown, unknown, unknown, and unknown. And all that will probably remain unknown. Some stories are never meant to be told, especially if those are the stories about the background characters with zero importance to the main story.

Ninclow wrote: Hawkins has been confirmed to be Jim's father by a reliable canonical source, without any other source contradicting it.

Nope, it was confirmed that he was intended to be Jim's father, but being intended to be something and actually being something are two different things.

Ninclow wrote: All evidence to the contrary, chief. There is a very real difference between Treasure Island and Peter Pan not being part of the story, and not being part of the universe. Shall we start dismissing Thor, Loki and the other Asgardians from the Marvel universe because they're from Norse mythology and not fictional superheroes like Iron Man and Captain America too?

All those deities of the Norse pantheon were officially adapted for Marvel Comics. Peter Pan and the Treasure Island characters were never adapted for Pirates of the Caribbean.

Ninclow wrote: It's the same thing. Treasure Island and Peter Pan co-exist with Jack Sparrow, they just haven't met/been confirmed to have met and thus isn't central to the story, but - they're there. Just not there.

No, it's not the same thing. Treasure Island and Peter Pan never made an appearance in Pirates of the Caribbean and they were never mentioned in Pirates of the Caribbean. Ergo, they don't exist in Pirates of the Caribbean.

Ninclow wrote: You are naturally correct. To combine the three based on out-of-universe sources, would be speculative. But we're not. We're talking about in-universe sources, like the Price for Freedom and Dead Man's Chest. Borrowed elements or not, they're still present, which renders them part of canon by default until contradicted within the narritive or the creator(s) at a later point.

Let me show you what one of those in-universe sources says about one of those borrowed elements. Here's an excerpt from The Price of Freedom.

''By now the Pirate Lords were busily discussing recent events and absent friends, exchanging information and gossip. Jack heard Don Rafael say, “You’ll never guess who I encountered at Oporto a few months ago!” ''

“Who was that?” Teague asked, pouring more wine for his fellow Pirate Lords.

“James.”

''Teague’s eyebrows rose, and Villanueva exclaimed, “Dios mio! I thought he must have met with a rope long ago! It has been years!”''

''“It has been many years,” agreed Don Rafael. “I thought the same thing. But there he was, sitting at a table in a little taberna, eating.” He took a bite of his own food, chewed, then added, “He’s lost a hand.”''

“You spoke with him, da?” Borya asked.

''“Of course. I walked over and joined him. He seemed startled, but glad to see me. When I asked him later on how he was managing without the hand, he said that it wasn’t so bad, the hook was as good as a dagger in a fight.”''

“So where has he been keeping himself?” Villanueva asked.

''“I asked him, but he wouldn’t say. Prison? That doesn’t seem likely, all these years.” Don Rafael shrugged. “And it’s not as though they lock us up.”''

''Jack swallowed hard. Everyone knew the penalty for piracy. He’d seen the gibbets too many times, with their dangling bodies.''

“Aside from the lost hand, how did he seem?” Teague asked.

''Don Rafael shook his head, his expression puzzled. “It was strange, Eduardo. He commented on this.” The Pirate Lord ran a hand over his thick gray hair, which touched his shoulders. “Since the last time we were together, I barely had any gray. But he didn’t look a day older. Not a day.”''

''Jack’s attention was suddenly far more focused. Interesting…I wouldn’t mind not aging...''

''“Odd,” Teague admitted. Few pirates lived to be old, and the few that did had features that betrayed their years.''

“Did he brag as much as he used to?” Mistress Ching asked.

''“No, and that was strange, too,” Don Rafael replied. “James was a lot more...subdued. You remember his temper. He’d fly into such rages.”''

''Villanueva gulped wine, then nodded. “I kept expecting his crew to slit his throat in his sleep and send him to Davy Jones. But they were all too frightened of him.”''

''“The night I saw him, he held his temper—and his tongue,” Don Rafael said. “Very closed-mouthed, he was. I only saw his composure disturbed once during the meal. The taberna keeper’s little lad came round to collect our plates, and when he turned and saw him, for just a second he looked—scared. No, worse than that. Terrified.” Don Rafael held out his wine goblet to be refilled. “Can you imagine that? Afraid! Of a young boy!”''

''Silence fell, as the Pirate Lords contemplated Don Rafael’s strange account. Jack stole another glance at Emeralda as she carefully patted her lips with her serviette. Reminded by her example, he used his own, not his sleeve.''

''Teague sipped wine, then cleared his throat. “We should return to our subject,” he said, inclining his head courteously to the Pirate Lord of the Caribbean. “That is, if you were finished, Don Rafael?”''

''“Oh, si!” the Pirate Lord said. “I am sorry, forgive an old man’s gossip. I actually had a point to make. Just before we parted company, James mentioned that he had come upon a man, half dead, floating in the sea. They pulled him out, and before he died, he told them a story similar to the ones I have heard here today. He said it happened off the coast of India.''

That's all we know about James Hook in Pirates of the Caribbean. There's nothing else. There is no Neverland, there are no Lost Boys, there are no fairies, there is no Peter Pan, there's nothing! Nothing, nada, néant, ništa, nenio, ничто, nulla, etc.

Ninclow wrote: They already have, they just were subtle about it because everyone and their grandmother would agree pushing Jack and his band of misfits into Neverland or onto the shore of Treasure Island, which are both world-renowed stories in their own right, would be cheap and unimagnitive. It doesn't mean the three don't co-exist within POTC's own canon, it means that Disney know how to please their audience.

They did not. Captain Hawkins is a POTC character partly based on a character from Treasure Island but he's not that character from Treasure Island. Their backstories and the timelines of the two universes simply don't fit. As for Hook, it wasn't Disney who put that mention of him in the book. It was Ann C. Crispin, and even she meant it as a joke. When J Fan and I asked her about James she openly admitted that she doesn't represent Disney. I doubt anyone at Disney even knows about "James" in her book.

Ninclow wrote: but adding a simple page on Neverland, describing what it is and the fact that James' connection to it with a trivia note linking it to the wikipedia page of Peter Pan. The same could be done to Treasure Island.

I repeat, they never made an appearance in Pirates of the Caribbean. They were never mentioned in Pirates of the Caribbean. Ergo, they don't exist in Pirates of the Caribbean.