User blog comment:Mrcharlton/YJS books may not be canon/@comment-2107404-20110528205758

Hey guys, thanks for inviting me to join in the discussion. :)

I just want to preface this by saying that while I personally accept the prequel novels as canon, I have too much experience with extended universes to expect everyone else to as well. Its quite common for some fans to be unwilling to accept anything that isn't alluded to or described in the primary medium, whereas others will accept anything as long as there aren't unexplainable contradictions. E.g., it's never specifically stated in the films that Jack Sparrow and Barbossa first met during the quest for the gold of Cortes, which "technically" gives EU writers like Rob Kidd a lot of wiggle room to play around in for amenable fans. However, for fans unwilling to accept anything beyond what the movies show us, all that is known about their past is that they sailed together for the chest. Neither position is any more legitimate than the other: in the end it depends on the views of the individual fan. The issue then, is not so much whether or not we should all accept the books as canon or not: it's whether or not "wiggle room" truly exists in the films for the issues Mr.Charlton has raised. So with that in mind, let's take a look at those questions:

''In the first book, Jack Sparrow is somehow already on Pirate on Tortuga at the age of thirteen. Jack didn't become a pirate until he highjacked a shipment of slaves while in his 20's''

--Actually, one of the recurring themes in the YJS novels is Jack's refusal to identify himself as an actual pirate during this period (in which he's around 16 or 17 btw, not 13) because of his resentment of his family. Even though he acts like a pirate and Teague tries to make him see it's an unavoidable part of who he is, Jack insits that all he wants is to become a reknowed "Captain" and have lots of adventures. So this is still technically in line with his not fully committing to piracy until after he freed the slaves.

Jack did not meet Tia Dalma until AFTER he highjacked the slaves.

-- Well unless there's some line in POF I haven't read yet (I just got the book yesterday) that specifically states their first encounter was after Jack freed the slaves, there's nothing in DMC and AWE that would necessarily preclude that they couldn't have met in Jack's youth. As CJSFan pointed out, Jack states they go "way back".

''The mermaids are described differently than shown in OST. Whitecap Bay is where the last known group of Mermaids live.''

-- Okay, this is really where wiggle room plays a HUGE part. Since the movies never explicitly state that the Whitecap Bay mermaids are the only type of mermaids in existence, it's "technically" plausible that they were only one branch of mermaid in a multi-varied species. It's also possible that the mermaids Jack encountered in the prequels all died out, leaving the WB mermaids as the one remaining sub-race. Again, for those of us who only want to go by what the movies shows us, the differences are understandably irreconcilable. Those of us willing to play around in the wiggle room don't see it as that much of a problem.

''In all of the POTC movies, the Caribbean is tropical and henceforth impossible for there to be a snowy island. ''

--Isla Esqueletica wasn't naturally snowy. It only began snowing there as a result of an enchantment. Robb Kidd isn't suggesting it's possible for Caribbean islands to naturally have a cold climate :D.

''Jack Sparrow did not meet Davy Jones until their "deal"

--Well I haven't gotten to the part in POF where Jack and Davy strike their "deal", so I don't know if it specifically states that it was the first time they met. However since it isn't explicitly mentioned in DMC and AWE, the YJS series doesn't directly contradict the films in this regard.

I doubt Davy Jones would offer to raise the Wench if they had a negative history with each other.

-- I admit a valid issue is raised here. All I can say is that maybe in the same way Jack and Barbossa were willing to work together despite their history, Jones was the type of pirate willing to strike a deal with anybody as long as he profited somehow from it. And since the prize here was a century of servitude on Jack's part, perhaps Jones felt it was a means of getting ultimate vindication on Jack when the time finally came to collect on his soul.

James Norrington did not meet Jack until the time of COTBP (he was aware of him, but they never interacted before).

-- James and Jack didn't really interact much during their one encounter in "Sins of the Father". James was just a six or seven year old boy, very scared of the battles going on around him and mainly just trailed his father around. His one big moment in the book came when he fell overboard and Teague rescued him, but there weren't any meaningful interactions with Jack that would contrast too sharply with their encounter in CotBP. Plus, considering what a young boy he was during SOF, it's plausible that by the time the events of CotBP unfolded, James didn't remember Jack's presence during the incident on his father's ship. And even if he did, he may never have realized the boy with the pirate who saved him was a young version of the infamous Captain Jack Sparrow (remember, Jack wasn't a famous pirate captain yet during YJS).

James Norrington was several years younger than Jack, they weren't the same age.

--"Sins of the Father" clearly states that James Norrington is about ten years younger than Jack Sparrow, so the notable age difference is taken into account here.

Joshamee Gibbs never met Jack until after the first mutiny.

-- Okay, this is the only thing in all POTC prequel fandom that has been really hard to make fit, and I can understand how it could be a major dealbreaker for some since it actually is a direct contradiction to someone's statement. How is it that Gibbs says he didn't meet Jack until after he became captain of the Pearl, and yet the books have him meeting Jack at Grandmama's birthday and then again in "Sins of the Father"? The only way the pro-EU-as-cannon fans can reasonably make this work is by just saying that something weird happened and Gibbs forgot his encounters with his friend Teague's son when the boy was a child. Perhaps his compulsive drinking damaged his memory!!!!! (hehehe). All kidding aside, this is one of those issues where you're either amenable to chalking it up to some explanation never given in the films or the books... or you're not. I don't condsider one position better than the other: it just doesn't affect my ability to accept the prequels as canon because 99.99999 % of what I've read in them easily fits with the films, and I don't have a problem offering up my own explanations to make the few actual discrepancies that exist fit. To each his own. ;)

Gibbs initially hated pirates and would not have saved Teague and Jack (he demonstrated in the beginning of COTBP that he believed all pirates should hang).

--Well what Gibbs was actually demonstrating to Elizabeth was what Norrington would do to pirates he encountered because she didn't understand the phrase "a short drop with a sudden stop". Having said that it's undeniable he did indeed display a significant fear and possibly hatred of pirates during this scene, which is in clear contrast to the double-dealing he did with pirates as a navy officer during the period of the YJS novels. A potential explanation is that something went wrong in Gibbs' dealings with pirates at some point between YJS and CotBP that caused him to become fearful and suspicious of them, but again, it's understandable how some fans might not want to have to come up with their own explanations to make things fit. Since I'm the type who doesn't have a problem with it the wiggle room is still alive and well for me.

Bootstrap Bill did not meet Jack until he became a pirate as an adult.

--The same argument that applies to Barbossa and Tia apply here: it's never stated in the films they met as adults, so the plausability of their meeting as youths is not damaged.

Bootstrap was a Merchant sailor before he turned to piracy, he was not a pirate as a kid.

--As far as I know this was a lie Will was told so he wouldn't have to learn the "ugly" truth about his father. I don't recall reading anything that ever stated he actually was a merchant sailor at some point in his life. Jack and Barbossa were not as close as described in the book and he didn't consider Jack as a friend (he just used him to get the Pearl and find the gold for himself).

-- Well in the LOTBC books Barbossa deeply resents Jack's authority over him because he disrespects his style of captainship. He's always hoping Jack will accidentally die somehow and continuously looks for opportunities to steal the Pearl. I haven't gotten far enough into POF to see what their relationship is like in that book, but since LOTBC takes place after the POF events, I could easily accept that Barbossa went from liking to loathing Jack after spending enough time taking orders from him. Also, I don't recall any of the characters ever saying in CotBP that Barbossa only joined Jack's crew to find the gold of Cortes.

''The Legends of the Bretheren Court books take place when Jack is roughly 25 years old, a year before he even made his deal with Jones. He would have still been employed by the EITC at this time.''

--POF takes place when Jack is roughly 25 years old. LotBC takes place after POF.

Lian and Park were in the LOTBC Rising in the East book, but they would have been six at this time (something tells me that Sao Feng wouldn't have little girls working for him) .

-- LOTBC is only 14 years before AWE: Lian and Park wouldn't have to be six because nothing says they were definitely 20 in AWE. It might require assuming that the characters' ages are a few years older than the actresses who played them were at the time, but again, wiggle room, wiggle room, wiggle room.

Sumphagee was a Hindu Priest and was forbidden to love a woman (Even if he could have a lover, he is most likely a eunich anyway. For all we know, that beard could be fake too) .

--Sumbhajee was a former Hindu Priest. He left his position to pursue his fortune as a pirate. Although I agree the beard looks fake as heck ;).

''Teague was the Patriarch of the Sparrow family (also, Teague's surname probably isn't Sparrow as Teague was the family's last name. Jack's real name was probably more along the lines of Jonathan Teague). ''

-- It's never stated in either AWE or OST that Teague was always the patriarch of his and Jack's family. Also it never says in any of the prequels that "Sparrow" was Teague's surname: "Sparrow family" is just used as the title of the wiki article relating to their family since Jack is the primary character in the series.

Gibbs was several years older than Jack, they weren't the same age.

-- It never says in any of the prequels that Gibbs and Jack were supposed to be the same age. If anything it more than alludes to Gibbs being significantly older than Jack, since his primary friendship was with Teague and Grandmama during this period as a double-dealing navy officer.

Gibbs was still in the navy when the LOTBC books supposedly take place.

--Gibbs wasn't in LOTBC, he was only in the young JS series. And since he was still in the navy at the beginning of CotBP I'm not sure how that would contradict anything, unless there's something in POF I haven't seen yet.

"Where the bloody ell' be Angelica, dash it all?"

-- Now this is something I'd really like to know myself lol!!! In all seriousness though, OST never makes it clear in what period of Jack and Angelica's lives they first met and began sailing together. For all we know it could have been right after the adventures in LOTBC or even perhaps after Jack first lost the Pearl.