Quick question, which doesn't affect anything(it's just out of curiosity), Where did "Groves" come from? Because:

1. I've looked at the ending credits for Pirates 1 and Pirates 3, and Greg Ellis was credited as "Officer".

2. As far as I know, nothing has mentioned his name being Groves until they announced that Groves would return to Pirates 4, as seen here(which confirms that his first name is "Theodore").

Again, not saying I don't believe that we've seen Groves in the first, third and fourth film, but I'm just interested into knowing where "Groves" came from(just out of sheer curiosity). CJSFanBlack Pearl 06:35, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

All I know is that a fellow user at KTTC asked Ellis (who is a member on a forum, including Terry Rossio) if they could name his character "Theodore", and here's what he said:
"If my memory serves me well, there was a group of fans on another forum who decided to give me a name after the first movie. There were many contenders but when the votes were tallied there was a winner - Theodore.
It seems to fit me well methinks...
And I'll challenge and rapscallion who disagrees!"
Captain Teague 20:11, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
So, the names "Groves"(before AWE), and "Theodore Groves"(before OST), came from a forum? Well, at least there was some contribution into it. CJSFanBlack Pearl 20:18, September 26, 2010 (UTC)
Heh, yeah. Captain Teague 20:27, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, well, as long as it wasn't "fan-made"(which it obviously wasn't lol), I'm ok. ;) CJSFanBlack Pearl 20:54, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Rank of Lt. Commander in OST Edit

In On Stranger Tides, Groves is addressed as "Lieutenant Commander" by Barbossa before Barbossa goes into the Spanish camp. I've added a line about his promotion in the OST section. However, adding a title to the biographical information sidebar and adding a category tag are beyond my current Wiki skills. JediHistorian 00:54, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

Well, we do put that in the OST section. But I don't think we need it for the sidebar, since Lieutenant is already there(and they're almost the same category). --J Fan SigBlack Pearl, HMS Interceptor, Queen Anne's Revenge 01:48, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
What did he say when he standing on the rock and hold the flag?Margaret3100 02:28, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
Basically trying to say that the Fountain is the property of the British Empire(sorry I couldn't write the exact quote :/ ). --J Fan SigBlack Pearl, HMS Interceptor, Queen Anne's Revenge 02:33, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
Thank youMargaret3100 02:36, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

May not be dead Edit

Even though being shot by the Spaniard, it doesn't nessacrily mean he was killed, the shot didn't even look like it hit a mortal area, and it never clarified that he was dead, what makes me speculate that he was still alive and was captured as a prisoner of war, there would be no reason for the Spanish soldiers to pull him away before they started destroying the Fountain if he was dead, they simply tossed Gillette's dead body (indeed dead, stabbed by Blackbeard) to the the side when rummaging over the broken ranks of the Blackbeard's crew and what remained of the British (who were also captured). My thought is that the Spanish took him cause he was worth something, maybe as an exchange, or something that leads to the next movie, cause if he's dead there's no more British officers to take over. But you don't really write off a guy who's been in all four movies, but then again they wrote off Norrington.

Even if we don't know if he's truly dead or not, we know he's dead now(there is no other explanation of what happened). And he actually only appeared in 3 movies, not 4(as you can see through Greg's appearances in the films). Unless if it is shown otherwise, we must assume the worst. --J Fan SigBlack Pearl, HMS Interceptor, Queen Anne's Revenge 23:29, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
And even if he survived, there would be no reason for the Spanish to keep Groves as a prisoner, cause Britain and Spain weren't at war at that time. UskokSea Queen, Nemesis 05:59, May 23, 2011 (UTC)
Actually, I litterally saw him AND Gillete get up and literally walk away..that was the confusing part of the movie
Well we'll have to see once OST goes on DVD. And please remember to sign with four tiles: ~ --J Fan SigBlack Pearl, HMS Interceptor, Queen Anne's Revenge 03:28, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

The shot may have actual hit Groves in the stomach, making him unconscious or immobile, but considering the medics in that period of war, and how their were no doctors around in that area he definitely could have died, the bullet however went in the middle of the flag hitting his stomach or crotch, still painful but not as lethal as getting stabbed. He also however was standing in the water of the Foutain of Youth so it could have saved his life. This is how he could have lived or died. (I would love to see him live becuase he is my favorite character.)

Wig and Hat Edit

What happened to his wig and hat in OST? He had them on during the first half of the film, and then they just suddenly disappeared when he went to save Barbossa. Did he take them off or...? Kougermasters 01:43, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, he took them off when he went to save Barbossa68.106.102.157 02:02, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

Main quote Edit

Does anyone know of which quote seems best to use as Groves' main quote? I honestly have no idea which is best to use. I personally would go with any of these(as they either have his name or sum up Groves' character):

  • Current quote -
"Which ship should we follow?"
"Signal the
Dutchman to track down Sao Feng. We follow the Pearl."
―Theodore Groves and Cutler Beckett
  • Beckett and Groves(sums some of his character) -
"How soon can we have the ship ready to pursue?"
Endeavour's mast crashes on deck]
"Do you think he plans it all out, or just makes it up as he goes along?
―Lord Cutler Beckett and Theodore Groves
  • Barbossa and Groves(has his name) -
"Orders, sir!"
"I'll have my navigator to the helm, Leftenant Commander Groves.
―Theodore Groves and Hector Barbossa (original screenplay)
  • Seagulls...nesting(sums some of his character) -
"Sir. The men—"
"They be dead already."
"They don't sound dead."
"Oh, is that so? Well I hear nothing but...seagulls. Nesting. What is it that you hear, Mr. Groves?"
"...Seagulls. Nesting. Nothing more.
―Theodore Groves and Hector Barbossa

Any of these would do IMO. However, if we end up using either the current quote or the Beckett quote, I'd say we combine those dialogues and put in a quote from the Maelstrom battle in the EITC Lieutenant section. But, as I said, I have absolutely no idea which to use. What say ye? --J Fan SigBlack Pearl, HMS Interceptor, Queen Anne's Revenge 20:01, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

So no one has any say on this semi-important matter? :/ --J Fan SigBlack Pearl, HMS Interceptor, Queen Anne's Revenge 03:12, August 18, 2011 (UTC)
The Seagulls quote would be good. UskokSea Queen, Nemesis 06:55, August 18, 2011 (UTC)

Reason for taking wig off Edit

This question is of little significance but: Why did Groves take his wig off? Wigs, 300 years ago, weren't just a fashion but they were also used to signify importance and to prevent lice from infesting the human hair (which is also why they shaved their heads). Groves took his wig off when he went to save Barbossa. I don't see how that could have changed anything (whether or not he took it off). Does anyone have an opinion on this? ARC Trooper Tal 15:35, October 3, 2011 (UTC)</p>

I thought it was because of either the hot weather(tropical island), or the more likely reason of the wig being a bit "beaten off" like or something like that. --J Fan SigBlack Pearl, HMS Interceptor, Queen Anne's Revenge 03:21, October 4, 2011 (UTC)
I guess that makes sense. The wig did look messed up though Gillette didn't remove his wig. That would also explain why Groves' clothing was less 'fancy' (minus the scarfs and what not). ARC Trooper Tal 05:18, October 4, 2011 (UTC)

Anybody sorry for him? Edit

Man, I felt bad when he died... I mean, he was a veteran of the franchise, and I had come to like him (probably one of my favourite Navy characters, allong with Gillete), and then he got shot, just like that... :'(

XaviCommander 10:00, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

I feel terribly sorry for him and Gillette. Both were my favorite characters and both died in the same movie. Gillette died fighting while Groves died by a gunshot. Both died honorably on the battlefield. Wonder why the producers decided to kill them off. :( ARC Trooper Tal 11:27, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
I felt sorry for Groves, but not for Gillette. Groves I kinda felt more with, plus I liked that he was a bit different from the other supporting British soldier characters(like his admiration for Jack in 1 and 3, and his caring for his men in 3 and 4). Though maybe because Gillette was only in 1 and 4 may be the reason, I guess. All in all, I shall miss Groves. R.I.P :/ --J Fan SigBlack Pearl, HMS Interceptor, Queen Anne's Revenge 15:19, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
Isn't strange that all the characters I've come to like eventually die? Like they were created for the sole purpose of getting killed eventually. Don't know why the producers didn't hire Damian to play Gillette in 2 and 3. Maybe he was busy with other works? The archive in showed that Damian was doing some other stuff during 2 and 3 filming. Still, I REALLY wish they didn't kill them off. When I first watched it, I was sad that Gillette died but remembered that Groves was still alive and fighting. Next thing I knew, he gets killed too! Which brings up a curiousity as to what characters will be created (or returning) to work for the British Navy in Pirates 5. ARC Trooper Tal 05:22, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
I'm getting that feeling, too... Norrington, Gillette, Groves... it's like the producers have a vendetta against the Royal Navy.
I really felt bad for the two guys - I mean, Groves was getting somewhere, he could've made captain, and Gillette... I remember, when I saw that Gillette would be appearing, I was so happy because he was alive, when everyone believed him dead because of the hurricane, and then, well... that was just cruel.

This stuff upset me so much that I started to think about writing fanfiction to correct the situation and give Groves a bit more recognition... "think" being, luckily, the key word. --Kneazlegirl 15:40, May 28, 2012 (UTC)


Is it really nessesary to mention that he used a spyglass in the Equipments and Skills section? I mean... That isn't really a skill, and basically any officer on board a ship would have one. Admiral James Kaizer (talk) 15:37, May 7, 2013 (UTC)

As far as I know, it should be fine. A spyglass is a piece of equipment of some sort, so it's fair to mention it. And while Beckett had a spyglass himself (evidenced in AWE), he was apparently the only officer in OST to use one(evidenced by Barbossa looked through Groves'). -- CJSFanOn Stranger Tides, Arkham City 20:03, May 7, 2013 (UTC)


Hey, I always wanted to know what theme plays whenever he's in a scene. Like when Jack and Will sailed away from the Daunteless in the first movie, he looked off in admiration and said, "That's got to be the best pirate I've ever seen..." And Norrington sighed a bit in frustration and replied, "So it would seem." Then the theme played and i twas epic. I know the name of it, it's the last part of the track called 'Blood Ritual', but some type of variation of it plays again in At World's End, with Groves in an exact scene resembling the first. He looks after Jack and Will sailing off in admiration and says, "Do you think he plans it all out, or just makes it up as he goes along?": Before he brashly apologized after Beckett shoots a look at him. Then the track plays, and it sounds very similar to Blood Ritual, except with more brass. I don't know what track it's from, could someone please help? Rileylloyd (talk) 01:22, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

I wish I could help but I can't. I just listened the entire AWE soundtrack and couldn't find that track. --UskokSea Queen, Nemesis 06:53, August 29, 2013 (UTC)
There isn't one in the official track, but you could try the alternate or recording session tracks. Might help, but not sure. Hope any of this helps! :) -- CJSFanOn Stranger Tides, Arkham City 00:29, August 30, 2013 (UTC)
It's towards the end of "Jack & Beckett" on the complete score. -- Captain Teague (talk) 05:07, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks everyone! You're right, it's near the end of Jack and Beckett. I like that part especially, it's really amazing. Rileylloyd (talk) 17:51, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

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